Eric Horton & Michele Olive | Discovering Who You Are & Telling the Story

On this episode of Return to Base, we teamed up with Eric Horton and Michele Olive.

Eric Horton retired from the U.S. Army after 26 years as a logistician. As he was experiencing his transition into the civilian world he was forced to take stock of what really mattered to him. It took pulling over on the side of the interstate and making the decision to leave a toxic job to lead him to where he is today, the Executive Director of Veteran Service for the State of Tennessee. Along the way, Eric networked, discovered the power of LinkedIn, and has helped thousands of veterans through his transition hacks. He’s a great friend and an invaluable asset to veterans all over the world.

Michele “One L” Olive is the Sr. Director of Alumni Engagement at the Commit Foundation. Through the Commit Foundation, Michele has encouraged hundreds of veterans to discover 

WHO they think they are as they navigate through the world of military transition. As a Licensed Clinical Social Worker she worked at a military base in Virginia where she discovered a passion for helping servicemembers. 

You can connect with the Commit Foundation at https://www.commitfoundation.org/,

Connect with Eric Horton at:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ericchorton/

Connect with Michele at:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michele-b-olive/

This episode was made possible in part by the good AMERICANS at Black Rifle Coffee Company.

Transcript

Host   00:01

Thanks for joining us. On this episode of Return to Base we welcome Eric Gordon, the Executive Director of Veterans Services for the State of Tennessee and Michele Olive, the Senior Director of Alumni Engagement for the Commit Foundation. 

This is Returned to Base, a Veteran Podcast.

All right, welcome back to the Return to Base Podcast. Today is a special episode we have to guess instead of one which is which is new for this podcast and something that we're going to try to do in the future. From Tennessee, we have Eric Horton, who's the Executive Director of Veteran Services.... Former Army guy, Army veteran, retired after 26 years and was lucky enough to ride around with me in a Humvee a couple month ago, veterans and Humvees spilling coffee. Also, Virginia Beach, Virginia, we have Michele Olive. That's Michele, one "L", Olive spelled the traditional way, who is a member of.... Excuse me, she's the Senior Director of Alumni Engagement at the Commit Foundation. Welcome to the podcast, guys. How you guys doing?

Eric Horton  01:34

Pretty good. 

Michele Olive  01:35

Doing well.

Host   01:36

Awesome. So, did I get all that right? Did I get your introduction? Michele? one "L". That's going to be your nickname for now on.

Michele Olive  01:43

Michele with one "L". [crosstalk 01:46] Me, Michael. Don't realize it's Michele.

Host   01:49

Also, Michele is coming to us from Inside the Space Shuttle. I think so... No, just kidding. In Virginia Beach there's a huge Navy population there. So, there's a ton of fighter jets and stuff flying overhead all the time. So, if you hear that, she's not being abducted by aliens or anything, it's just part of the way life in Virginia. How do you even get used to that?

Michele Olive  02:13

I don't even hear it anymore. 

Host   02:15

You don't even hear it anymore. Okay, cool. Yeah, I visited Virginia Beach for school once and I stayed kind of on the beach. And I was amazed just started at like 5:00 am, every 5 minutes over the Atlantic Ocean, one plane after another. It was crazy. But it was a good time.

Michele Olive  02:33

They get it worse down there. We're where we are is not quite as bad. And I say that I don't hear it. Like I obviously I hear it. You just sort of tuned it out. You don't realize it. I had this I would literally just pause my conversation and talking to somebody and wait for it to pass by and then resume the conversation and like subconsciously don't even realize what you're doing. And when people aren't from here, they're just kind of like what is going on?

Host   02:57

I grew up in Southern California, San Diego, and we used to go to these plays. And things like that about ballpark. There's this like amphitheater right where they do Shakespeare basically, and different plays anyways, it's right in path of Lindbergh Field. And when the planes are coming, it's like... The people in the play, literally press pause, don't move until the playing goes away. And if you're not accustomed to, you are what the heck is going on here. But welcome from Virginia Beach. Appreciate you being here. And, of course, Eric, how you doing today?

Eric Horton  03:33

Yeah, pretty good man. Just enjoying some sunshine over to the left. But man, just living the dream.

Host   03:39

Good. So, the topic of this conversation is... It's kind of a heavy one to get through in the short amount of time that we have. But it's about building your brand, figuring out who you are. And then actually kind of the reverse, figuring out who you are. And then building your brand, building your following on LinkedIn, with recruiters, etc. But for veterans, it's a difficult thing to do. Because I know when I was coming out, and from a conversation that I've had with other veterans.... When I was getting out, I had no idea who I was. I know I couldn't go out and be a Green Beret for Facebook or Google or anything like that. So, I had to ask myself, what am I? And that was something that was pretty difficult to do. Because I had no idea what was out there. I had no idea what I'd be good at. I just thought like everybody else in the army. When you get put in a position, you'll learn it and then you'll try to find success. 

So, Michele, if you want to talk about a little bit, what you do at the Commit Foundation and how that relates to finding who people are.... Finding people's self, if you will.

Michele Olive  05:03

Yeah, and I think probably like a lot of people in this space, you know, my own journey was a little bit of a bumpy and somewhat funny one now that I look back at it, yeah, to get in here and I'm a licensed clinical social worker worked in mental health, and even getting to the part where I was in grad school was kind of hilarious on itself. But nonetheless, this notion of like just wanting to help people, the plague of probably most social workers. And I ended up getting a job working at Little Creek base, because it was close to where I lived, probably more so than anything else, right? This wasn't like our head is calling to go work with the military. This was probably initially started out as like a convenience thing. But what it ended up turning into was that passion part, like I really enjoyed this population, I really.... There's something special, right? And it's hard to really put your finger on it. But when I can see that, as someone who's never had a military background of my own, and tried to tell me what like that's the part where getting everyone else to realize and see... This part of working... I did mental health there, I ended up doing some work embedded with some specific command groups and then went over to Dan Mac [phonetic 06:21], and was embedded within a Naval Special Warfare Command and the Psychology Department. 

Again, mental health was always the focus when I met Anne-Marie Craig, who is the CEO, or at the time was the CEO of the Commit Foundation. And when we had this conversation, I was really just kind of being nosy. A lot of the service members were going through and listening to her program and raving about it talking about this really enlightened perspective that they were able to get on, like who they are and what they wanted to do, and within a matter of a few minutes of our conversation, she really was able to even pick me a part of this, like, you are not defined by what you do for your own job, even as a civilian, right? Like, why is it that you enjoy this? And when I was able to boil down those ingredients of like, what it is about this role and stuff like that and she's like, that's what I do for people every day, I help them figure out, like.... What is the passion behind it? What are those core values? What is their purpose? Because if you can figure that out, there's probably a lot of different roles and things to do on that in the civilian world that'll scratch all those itches. But too many of them are just going for like the next challenge, the next horizon.... None of these people that we've generally been serving are truly at risk of unemployment. 

So, this is making sure that they find some place that they get reinvest themselves at the right level, because they are such high performers, because they do have so much to offer. And helping them see that for themselves, helping them get that message across to the other side. And when you do, it's beautiful. And it's really hard to explain this to a transitioning service member, I think sometimes we have that first conversation. And there's like a lot of fear. And there's a lot of doubt, and that humbleness that almost becomes like self-deprecating sometimes, and getting them to move them from there to someplace where they're like I get it now. And I can see, and I know exactly what you were talking about back in our first conversation.

Host   08:31

Right. And I tell you, what as a... You said clinical psychologist, correct? 

Michele Olive  08:36

No. Clinical Social Worker.

Host   08:38

I was going to say if you had to choose a population to start in clinical social work, or clinical psychology, Little Creek [phonetic 08:47] probably a good place too because those students are not... So, let's face it, just get it. I got a lot of respect for the people out at Little Creek, but it could be a bit wild. 

Michele Olive  08:59

A lot of divers there...

Host   09:02

That's right. A lot of good guys. Very much fit, very fit, at least physically. But, you know, that's interesting that you worked with that high performing type a population. And you see that those question marks or that hesitancy or even that self-doubt creep into those people when it comes to transitioning. Right?

Michele Olive  09:31

Absolutely. I mean, a lot of us.... Wait, we have a segment. You know, we've often talked to folks through the difference between I think courage and confidence. And it really gets because, you know, you don't realize how much you rely on confidence in the military, but you train over and over and over for something before you execute on anything. So, it's repeating something so many times I don't want to come time to do it. You are confident but in transition they are really this [unintelligible 10:03] training cycle that prepares you for this. So, there are pieces you can train for. But this is where you rely on the courage, like 1000s of small moments, and you have to take a step into an unknown and do things that you've never done before, and I think [crosstalk 10:21] the courage comes in

Eric Horton  10:22

Well, I think some of that too, though, is not just a courage piece, it's you don't even know what questions to ask, you don't even know what to train for. And in those careers like it, where you were at a Little Creek, you know, they're trained to hide weaknesses, because they need to perform all the time. So, they've been ingrained to perform at all costs, because the mission is greater than the man. And so, you take that same drive and desire. And that could be, which is kind of a great piece that you've been able to solve. Because if you took all of that away, and now you put them at the doorstep to jump out into some.... They don't know where they're going, what they're doing. There's no support network, there's no communication, there's just an open vast area. And so, getting them to be totally vulnerable enough to recognize, "Hey, I don't have to hide things, I have to be able to ask for things." And its courageous piece is powerful.

Host   11:24

It's an interesting thing, right? So you go from a known that has a ton of built in unknowns, right? So being in the military, a lot of times you don't know where you're going to be in 6months, you don't know what missions are gone have to do, or what dangers you're going to face. But it's something that we acclimate to. And when we look at that DD 214 date, or, you know, should I stay? Or should I go, I know, when I had those opportunities to get out of the military. I was scared, you know, early on, I was like, man.... Maybe I should just do this 20 years, so I could get that pension. And I ultimately did to 20 years, I enjoyed my career in the military, which is, which is why I stuck around. But I know that there are a lot of people out there who are just shell shocked, frightened, and don't have any idea what they're going to do. What are the some of the common things that you hear? I imagine it's like.... I don't even know what's out there. Something similar to that.

Michele Olive  12:30

I mean, I think it usually starts with that like, you try to get him to tell me a little bit about yourself. And that's the first tripwire. They're like, ah, ah...

Host   12:42

I'm not good diver.

Michele Olive  12:46

Yeah, you know, in sometimes, I don't know, if people realize how can that tends to come across, but these general terms that people might use, and they're like, I'm a dynamic leader above. It's like, what does that mean?

Host   13:00

I hate elevator pitches. They feel so funny. But I know they're important. I'm not going to poopoo on getting your 32nd elevator pitch, but it does end up coming across. So

Eric Horton  13:14

[crosstalk]

Host   13:17

Yeah, exactly.

Michele Olive  13:18

It does not have to though, right? I think if you can get to some of the truly authentic pieces, like what? I mean, Cliff, like what makes you, you? Really you? That you could have a genuine conversation. Then that's where the goodness happens. But yeah, the surface level? And some of that probably requires some being vulnerable. Right? Yeah. It requires probably a lot of introspection to sit back and do some of that. You know, I don't know, I'd say like the value alignment work or like really, like, something beyond honor, courage and commitment, right? But what really, is going to get you out of bed every day with some fire in your belly.

Right. And I imagine in the community that you worked with, at least in my experience, with folks from the community that you work with, a lot of them will say things like, "I'm thinking about getting into venture capitalism or banking", and you're like, "What does that mean to you?" And that's really.... Like, we kind of have an idea of who we think we're going to be, but only at a surface level. And you start asking that question, like, why do you want to get into venture capital? Why do you want to get into banking?

It always comes back to "why"? And if you could have a really good answer to that "why", great!! Because there's probably a lot of other industries where you could also find that why but then you just have to make sure it's a good fit.

Eric Horton  14:51

Yeah, I mean, absolutely. I was going to say about that "Why" comes in many different forms and fashions. You know, it's just what's the intrinsic thing that you hold valuable? And I've even heard a lot. And we had a great conversation with a good friend that's here. You know, July 3, there was a colleague that it actually was a part of the 22 statistic but we had just had conversations, like a couple of days before that was like, you know, this guy said, he had everything but he had a man cave, that was just unbelievable. And when we were asking, like, Hey, man, what are you going to do? And he's like, I'm not going to do anything right now. Because I'm 100% from the VA. So I've got that income. I'm retired... You know, 28 years in the Army. So I got that income. I don't have an care in the world, I don't have a need in the world. Right? But at the end of the day, we had this debate over again, like, how do we miss that? What happened? I don't understand, and we came up to the conclusion that, what if it was his? Why wasn't tied to the financial security as why was who he was afterwards, right? What's yours take the uniform off? What's left? What is your intrinsic why? It's going to bring value to you. It can't be revolving around an economic or job. It has to be something much deeper than that, and so I cringed now, when I hear guys say, I'm not going to go to work, or I'm not going to do anything, I'm just going to stay at home and go fishing. And I'm like, that's going to be good enough for a little while. But what happens when it's not there anymore, you know, what happens when you say, it's too damn cold, I want to be out there. And you're so young. You know, if you come in the military 20, you leave at 40. And you live to statistics says 80, that's halftime in your football game of life, like you have a lot of fire left in you. If you don't know what that why is, the job's not going to give it to you, and not working, it's not going to give it to you, but that "Why" has to be watered down enough to where you're going to, you're going to be able to find a purpose to get up and do something.

Host   16:52

Yeah, that's an important part of it, for sure. And something that I think a lot of people struggle with. If that "why" is.... Where are you going to work? I want to make a ton of money. Well, that's interesting. But you had mentioned that doesn't a lot of times bring self-satisfaction? 

Michele Olive  17:13

Yeah, I mean that it comes back to that life design. So I think this, I will usually, if I had to tell somebody, they only had one thing they could do, I would say, like that core value piece, right? Because if you have a great awareness of what's important to you, and then you deliberately lead and like in your conversations, and whatever about what's important to you. I feel like that opens doors. And you know, as long as you can listen, you can assess, you can figure out a good fit, there's a lot of things you can learn from just doing that one part, and if you do that one part, maybe you will realize that doing nothing is not going to be a good fit, you know, I mean, or that you have other things that you want to focus on, and then how you want to spend your... Design your life and how you want to spend your time, but I think if people do that piece around the value alignment, and as long as you can tell some good stories around it, too, because that's good, right? Like to be able to wrap it up with, like, give me an example of why you think that matters to you. 

Host   18:20

Well you know, what you find out it really quickly is that... I'm just going to be blunt is, we find out that we're kind of full of shit. Right? We think we have it together. But a lot of times, we really don't. And I think that it's important that we recognize that as early as possible, and that's where organizations like the Commit Foundation, and other... A lot of organizations are out there right now, it's pretty crowded, but they're all.... Most of them are very well meaning and I know the Commit Foundation has been around for a bit, and really is there to help but somebody.... Excuse me, the veteran needs to go out a lot of times and ask for help find the resources and get some of those questions, not answered for them, but at least get on a trail that leads them to the answers to those questions. So tell us a little bit more about the Commit Foundation if you don't mind.

Michele Olive  19:31

Yeah, we, you know, coming up on our 10th year, actually now, which is amazing. And in a pretty big state of, I guess 'scale', if you would. The focus has always been on a bit like quality over quantity. And so then the notion of having an in depth conversation, right? Someone who applies talks to a director of veteran service, and we sit down and try to pull on those strings of like Which parts of this have you figured out? Which parts do you still have gaps? And I know a lot of people come with this. I call it like bias to action, right? That's very tactical, I need to resume, I need to take some interview skills. And I'm like, Dude, what do you even want to be? Like, back up the bus a little bit and figure this out? Or even for the ones who say, like, I want to go into venture capital. Great!! Tell me a little bit more about that, and why. And I think if you can even share and like normalize this notion of.... 

I've had a lot of conversations with people who have the most impressive resumes. I mean, I look at the piece of paper, and I feel like I'm not even worthy of talking to them. And then you go and have a beer with them on a Friday night and find out that they're miserable, they're not okay, they're making lots of money. And they think they failed in transition, they can't figure out where they went wrong. And often, I think it comes down to, they just didn't actually go after what was going to be a good fit, and it's sucking their souls. 

And there is a lot of this, we try to get people in this place of like, figure out what fills your cup, figure out what's going to be a good fit, we can help you figure out how to go out and get it or find it and figure out the gaps from there. But there isn't a template to this approach. So I can't say that if you apply to Commit Foundation, you're going to get a, b and c, it really kind of depends. Where are you? Are you trying to go? What do you need to get there? And we do that. And we're able to say though, we'll provide you as much or as little as you need along the way. 

And from a human standpoint, like that, it ends up being like relationships, right? I mean, I'm talking to when they apply by the end of it.... By the end of the journey, right? Like you're tight. And it's amazing, because I know, by the way, so amazing.... Veterans, I recently moved into this alumni side with a Commit Foundation, because the other part of this is taking care of them going forward. 

So a few years down the road, you know, if you decide you want to pivot, you can come back for those who still want to serve. And I see a lot of that, like they miss their military family and like, Well, they'd come back and help us in this process where we're, you know, the next guy in line who's going from uniform to civilian, and really just at bringing them back into the fold, which is been super exciting. So when I thought about that recently, I'm still designing some of the components. 

Host   22:45

I can't wait to hear more about it. Because I think, an important piece is the veteran family. And I've never asked for a call or assistance from a veteran who didn't say, Yeah, let's hop on a call. Let me provide you all the help you need. And it's been pretty humbling. Because I've talked to people from all the different services minus the Space Force, which is it real? No, just kidding.  [crosstalk 13:15] There's a Space Force veterans yet, but I've talked to people from all services out, just reach out to them on LinkedIn and say, "Hey, do you have a minute to talk about this company?" And everybody's always been very helpful. But Michele, you mentioned that there's no template, right? But is there a mythology? Or excuse me, not mythology, a methodology or a kind of a path that you would recommend? And I know that probably step one is start frickin early, right?

Michele Olive  23:52

Yeah, well, yes and no, because I see those folks who apply way too early but they're not really like... It's not burning their brain. It's not keeping them up at night. And so there's things you can do early. The design in your life book, I think is a great example of going through some of those exercises, figuring that stuff out. I think there are pieces, you can certainly start early, a lot of the tools that we have with executive coaching of this online platform, kind of building out a bit of a baseball card. That stuff I think is probably best when you're in that one year out. And this is really kind of... An I say one year. Again, there's no template for all this, but it also depends on what other variables are coming in. Is there a deployment on your last year? Gosh, I hope not. But I see a fair share of that. Is there... You know, are you going to do a skill bridge, fellowship and like that's going to backup the bus and other six months and that type of stuff. And we've also recently... We're rolling out some additional services for spouses to be able who are also going to be transitioning naturally as part of this as well, and making sure that we support them, and I think that the more we can mitigate all the stress that's involved in this process the better we can set people up for success.

Host   25:16

What do you think is the preferred outcome? Or the day you sign out on terminal lead. What is this? I'm not saying Commit Foundation wants you to be at X. But you as a service member should have at least an idea of where you're going, is that fair to say?

Michele Olive  25:41

Yeah, I know, people who build in taking a tactical time off, if you will, at the end of their journey?

Host   25:49

Yes.

Michele Olive  25:50

If you think about it, like, there's not many opportunities in life, to just say, I'm going to take a little time off, I have hard charged it for 20 plus years, or whatever. And I'm going to take a little bit of a gap, get my batteries, 100%, pay back some social capital to my family, whatever goes into that, and then come into that next chapter at 100% and be ready. I think that's fantastic. And the beauty of us not having like rigid timelines of like, that's fine. And if there's pieces of this, however, they want to attack this plan that will be there to support it. If they want to be employed, if they want to be part time employed, I laugh... [unintelligible 26:31] used to talk about if you want to be a ballerina we'll get you a dance lessons [unintelligible 26:36] like, I don't want to impose some artificial values that you need to do certain things, you need to make a certain amount of money. I think you need to find whatever is going to be fulfilling. Maybe that's just doing nothing but volunteer work and making no money. Hey, if that works for you. There's not many people who fall in that bucket.

Host   26:59

Eric, let's kind of segue into your transition. I know that you transition in 2016. Is that right? Or? 

Eric Horton  27:09

Yes.

Host   27:10

So from my experience, the amount of groups or individuals, organizations that are out there to help now... It's been year by year been growing. There's a lot of amount there now, but 2016, there's a lot less probably and I don't know your particular transition story. But what was out there for you when you transitioned? And how did your transition go? And would you have benefited from a relationship like this?

Eric Horton  27:51

Well, believe it or not, there was a lot of things are available. And that goes back into what Michelle had talked about was, you know, when do you start earlier, then start the better, right? And I actually.... So when I was going through recovery, because I actually was medically retired, and I did 26 years but at the 24-year mark, I kind of knew right off the bat, I was going to have to retire. So I let the one year of recovery take place. And then I started the retirement paperwork exactly one year to the day of getting out. So I had two years to really already get the mindset wrapped around the process of retiring, not the impact emotionally of retiring, but the process. And it was a seamless process. The only thing that I was really focused on was Hiring Our Heroes was a DOD skill bridge, they just been kind of created a little bit before that. And so their first cohort for Campbell, they started having conversations in May of 2015. And I had to apply for my packet in September of 2015 to start February of 2016. So I was well ahead of the game, I already knew it... Right around late 14, September 14, actually that it was going to have to the writings on the wall, it's got to retire. So I went to work with the process, making sure I checked the hit key gates and everything else. But what was built into that was the emotional impact of all that. And so everything on paper, I remember when I was... After we had the discussion and I was knowing the writings on the wall, it's got to retire. My father in law who retired from the Navy, actually called me up from Japan said hey, "Let me hear your plan." And I said, "I got A Plan, B Plan, C plan." A plan was going to work B plan was this, C plan was just take a year off and then.... And he said, "Great." We're going to talk about this again in a couple months. So a couple months went by, my A plan had turned into A.2, A.3... B Plan; B.2, B.3, C Plan; C.2, C.3. And he said, "All right, great, but just means you have something to deviate from." So I was like, Holy crap, I You know, you're talking about like I've processed this out. I have [unintelligible 30:01] it right. 

And so when I started Hiring Our Heroes, I really had was the goal was to be placed with a company, do the internship and then slide right into the job as a seamless part of key gate. But I was seeing that the higher hero's piece, I was easy, because I already knew what I was going to do. I had the pathway lined out. But I was watching people, my class that had started a year out, or over 18 months, really on average about out and their stress level was kind of a roller coaster, they are in the program. So they're on cloud nine, and then they would tank, you know, because 3 weeks into their cohort or their internship, they're like, well, this isn't what I like to do, or I don't know how they're not listening to what I'm telling them to do, or they're not doing this or they don't like it when I'm knifing... People use these different cultural differences. And I would watch their emotions go up and down. And here, I'm sitting here, on easy street going, Man, I like this company, like, it's going great. I know what's going to happen when I stopped. But the more that I was in it, I was so focused on this, but I was seeing how it impacted my peers that they were confused, because there was so many opportunities out there, there's so many agencies are out there. They didn't know which one to choose. And I only put everything into Hiring Our Heroes.

Host   31:21

So you're saying a lot of veterans out there, were suffering from a bit of a analysis paralysis

Eric Horton  31:29

100% 

Host   31:30

Where you had... your path kind of paved this as at least you thought, right? 

Eric Horton  31:36

Absolutely. 

Host   31:37

I know from personal experience that... I wouldn't say I had analysis paralysis, but it was a bit overwhelming sometimes the different opportunities because you only have time. Our time is a finite resource, and you have to start allocating your time. And by the way, don't forget, you probably have a family. I had a family. So, Hey, I got to go to this networking thing. Why? What's the purpose of this networking thing? I don't know. Somebody told me I needed to network. So that's why I'm going.... Continue your story there.

Eric Horton  32:15

Yeah. And so sitting in the class for that 12.... I think it was like 13 weeks, actually... I watched everybody's emotions through this, you know, cloud nine, I'm in heaven. It's like the honeymoon phase. And then oh, man, this isn't the company I want to work at, or, you know, networking thing, like what is that we started doing.... Every other Friday was like a networking event with some company. And so... Or the briefers that would come in and I was just... In the law, the closer that I started getting towards that exit the finish line, right? The more convoluted the opportunities were unraveling. And when I looked back on it, I was like nobody was talking about. So getting the job is going to do what, who are you? What are you? What do you want to do? Did you take any tactical pauses, so you can go spend time with your spouse? Because you probably haven't had time to unpack what life is gonna look like? Is it a couple once you get out, right? Or how do you reconnect again? 

Eric Horton  33:13

So all these different things started unraveling the closer that I got to it? And I think that was kind of, you know, what kind of helped me look back on it and see what went wrong wasn't the process. What went wrong was the personal process.... You know, unpacking what I wasn't, who I was, and things like that, but that's where I kind of look at it, what we have nowadays is even worse, because the sheer volume, or what like Olivia Nunn [unintelligible 33:48] just retired, and she called a 44,000, CEO of Goodwill, there's 44,000 agencies willing to help a veteran. 

So it's worse now for a veteran to kind of walk that path because they don't know who.... You know, it's kind of like you're starving and you're going to a grocery store to go pick up one item, and you're walking past the buffet that had the fresh rotisserie chicken coming out, and you were sent to go get crackers in the back of the far end. So, I mean, you're just sitting there like that at a disadvantage these days. More so.... And there's more resources available, but there's just not enough of the right resources that are helping people unpack the personality piece. 

So for me the process I couldn't have been more perfect. And that's not what went wrong. What went wrong was the person you know, then how do you unpack almost three decades of your life, and a lot of times it kind of the hardest group of people that I always work with a lot of times, so is the seniors because.... And to be totally transparent as well with you our identity is wrapped around our rank and the badges we have on our chest. We've done a great job of hiding weaknesses, because we don't want to be dined out, because the weakest link in that operation or that mission. So we do great at hiding, you know, masking the problems and the weak areas in order to show the biggest, upfront piece, the best version of ourselves, which is fully transparent on our chests, and our rank. But at the end of the day, sometimes, once we remove that, and it's gone. What's left? If your identity was wrapped around that, and that's all that was left out is gone, that's where everything starts to come unglued.

Host   35:40

So you went through this process? You had all your accoutrements, and your badges, and your rank, and your seniority in the military. You parlayed that into what, you know, some people might think of it as an ideal career, but from our conversations, I know that you didn't find satisfaction in that first opportunity you had. And that kind of led you down a different path. Talk about that a little bit. You don't have to mention company names or anything if you don't want to?

Eric Horton  36:15

Yeah, well, I mean, you think of it like this. So there's two parts of the process that you just got divorced from. The military does a great job of indoctrinating you for 12 to 16 weeks of boot camp. How to become a civilian that's 18 years old, become relatable to military, when you leave the service, there's maybe 5 days if you're really giving it your 5 days, but in my case, I was probably sitting at the back of the classroom, you know, I was so important on my Blackberry, and that wasn't listening to what I needed to listen to possibly, and so when you all said, "Now, rip all that off", and then you start work the next day. Like, for me, it was the equivalent of being a fish out of water. I didn't know the culture, I started off immediately at the top when I didn't even know what the end user was using, and understand the translational part of dealing with a workforce that 93% have never served and didn't have the identity of who we were and our capabilities. 

And so, you know, I didn't have the luxury of my rank telling you what to do, I didn't have the luxury of my positional importance, could parlay that kind of buy in without actually knowing what buy in meant? And so that's when things really started to go south for me was, I just didn't know the culture, I didn't know what it meant to be in charge of 1500 other people that are over 40, that are going to tell me to go pound sand when I go tell them to go do something. Whereas I'm so used to that level of commitment. And I think for me, one of the first red light moments that came on for me was Oh, my goodness, like, was when an individual didn't go do something I told him to do, or that I would have.... Would have been normal for me, which was, if one of my soldiers would have called said, "Hey! I have a flat tire", my response would be like, "Hey! let's go get him." If he didn't show up for work that morning, it's not Hey, where's he at? Oh, he had a flat tire. It's like, we've got things to do. Go get him. And so for me when I told one of the supervisors, like, "Hey, did you go get them?" They called out because I had a flat tire and you needed that person, but you didn't go get them? To me, it seemed like a no brainer. And so that was the first thing for me was working in a workforce that is not as committed to work as I am. And how do I relate? How do I understand that piece? There wasn't a person there to kind of mediate between it. And so, you know, it just was one incident after another of similar things, that was like, wow, I'm really in a foreign environment, that I don't have the support. And my wife had kind of constantly referred me to that. She's like, "Hey, they're not your battle buddies anymore." You know, and I'm thinking, I have colleagues that I can lean out on, and one of the first the other light bulb that was kind of one of the biggest triggers, I think, for me was, I didn't take a vacation when I retired. I literally during Memorial Day weekend, at my retirement ceremony, they asked if I could start to work actually that Saturday. And I said, "Yeah, I'll go". Because we go when we're called upon, and so not taking that time period, when I actually did make a vacation time to go to Hawaii, with my spouse for an anniversary. I went told my boss, he was like, "Yeah, what are you doing?" Like, that's those are your buildings. And I was like, I know, but so and so is going to cover down and this is going to happen, it's going to happen. And he was like, Yeah, but those are your buildings, like, what are you going to do about this? And I was like, Oh, wow, this is applied past that. I still have to maintain work while I'm on vacation. And that's when I was like, Holy crap, nobody's going to pay you $100,000 Not only $400,000 And that's when things really started going south. I was like, Man, I didn't take time for myself. I didn't take time for my spouse. I didn't take time for all these things. And that's when the first domino I think for me, was the fell... At that point I was already so far removed from the cultural differences, you know, in corporate life, it's pretty brutal. Most corporate C suite executives are already.... They've accepted a role knowing they're looking for the next position in 2 years or less. And sometimes they can be fired in the next quarter, right? q1 or earnings [phonetic 40:18] report says this, that level of constant stress was kind of another, you know, like I said, the big domino for me, they just started falling. And then it was just one more thing packed onto it after another. It wasn't that I didn't know the job. It was the fact that I didn't know the culture and the environment of things, you know...

Host   40:40

Did you rip off the band aid one day?

Eric Horton  40:43

Well, I did. So I think for me, honestly, was, like I said, 9 months into the role. You know, they called me to come back. And my day started right around 4:30, I was still trying to do PT. So I would give a 4:30. And I was commuting an hour, one way on a good day, it could be three hours on a bad day, you know, to Nashville. And so my day started at 4:30, I would get up do PT, and then 5 o'clock, I'd be on the road. 5:30, roughly by 06 o'clock to be on the road. And then I went down to like 8:39. So this one Friday, they'd actually called me to come back, because somebody was screwing something up. And so I was like, how is it they're not holding that person accountable instead of making me come back in and it kind of revolved around something that I had heard when I was a young soldier was like, the harder you work, the harder you're going to get screwed. And in this case, that's where I was going to be able to deliver, and they weren't going to hold the other person accountable, they were just going to bring their solution and corporate was to make, bring the person's going to solve the problem in no matter what, right? 

Regardless of his situation, his family, and I literally was so enraged and angry at that point, from everything had gone wrong, I'd literally pulled over on the side of the road. And, I mean, it was just like, by the grace of God, that I just found my way back into the vehicle and made it home. I didn't even go back. And I came back, and then that's when I gave them... You know, we need to have a discussion about this. Right? And finally, I just gave him a 30-day notice and said, Hey, I'm going to... I'll stay long enough for you to find somebody, and then I'll right seat left seat with them. And their solution was, we'll give you a 10% raise if you stay. I'm like, I don't... Are you serious? Like, there's no amount of money that can solve this problem.

1.      You're being underpaid, obviously. 

2.      You're right, there's no amount of money. 

Host   42:35

Do you see at the Commit Foundation, these...? I don't know what you call them. The veterans who kind of have it figured out and then it doesn't work out. And so now they're one or two years out, and they give you a call and say, "Hey, Michelle, I'm having some issues. Let's have a conversation. Do you see that often at the Commit Foundation?

Michele Olive  42:59

Yeah, well, I wouldn't say often, but I certainly say it. And in the beginning, it was really difficult for me.. I took it personal. We went through all this introspective work, we you know, you can do all the right things, and still land in a role that is misaligned with you. And I think it was kind of that notion of like, what did we do wrong? Bur this notion, we transition or tension of opposites, right? That transition can be really exciting, and full of opportunities. And at the same time, it's full of uncertainty and change. And I think human nature, like we try to, like think of it only be one or the other, right? But it can be both at this very same time, like scary and exciting. And I think the elephant sometimes in the room is fear, and transition. And the danger of ignoring it. Because I see people who tried to just like we've always done probably conditioning, right? We ignore the fear, we suppress it and we keep charging, and if anything, we just work harder, and we will out power the fear. And I think the danger of ignoring the scary parts of transition, is that it takes the wheel becomes the driver and you can see this where people become reactive, they start ignoring all the things that they've already talked about, values and ideals, they can know this stuff. 

I've literally sat down with people and said... Who said that they are like completely in the wrong place. And like alright, what are your top values? Walk me through this real quick and they could rattle them off on the top of their head? Okay, what are the decisions that you... When you're making your decisions when it comes to careers? What are you basing them off of money? But you didn't list the money or you didn't say any of that when I just asked you what was supposed to be driving this and you know, but.... So I think the shiny objects of like.... It's really sexy to make a lot of money, or a certain title or a certain company that has a certain brand, and I get it. That's attractive, I call that like the shiny object syndrome, maybe it's not a good fit, but it sure looks nice. And then I think sometimes just that fear reaction, getting tactical ignoring all the things that you know, and focusing on become a lot more myopic of what they're going to do. And it can lead us in the wrong place.

Eric Horton  45:27

Yeah, and I wanted to add on that, because that was the biggest driver for me was, I thought I was worth 6 figures, which I am, but I tied my value to a number, and, you know, I actually have had multiple conversations with some good colleagues. And one that stood out the most for me, was Colonel Rob Campbell. And in his last book, he said, "We rushed to compromise the very values we fought to say, because we have too much stuff, and we have to go make the money." And that stuck out because that's exactly, I thought I deserve to be which, you know, it was an entitled mentality. Because of my experience, by training I am this, my value is tied to that sexy salary. And I was like, that couldn't have been more opposite of me, right? I wasn't geared towards that. II was chasing that, because I wanted that, again, the fruit salad on the chest now needed to be the fruit salad with a brand at a company and a salary. 

So, my perspective was so skewed, because you know--- And everybody in my class, when I started unpacking, it was exactly the same way, they were chasing the job that had the stature and the money that defined their success, and that's when, over the years now, that's ultimately what I've said was, I've seen some of the happiest people that just drill a widget for a manufacturing floor, and they could have been a 30 year retired [unintelligible 47:02] major, but they've never been happier. And so could they have done this? Absolutely. But what again, like what are we chasing? And what are we defining as success for ourselves? And getting to the root analysis of what do we really want? What do we really value? What do we, you know......

Host   47:24

Yeah, I hear all these things about what do we value, and a lot of respect for that. And I think that it's extremely important. But I have this feeling that there's a bit of reality that ends up sinking in eventually, I did a poll on LinkedIn, where I had a few different options about, "Hey! why did you accept that first job?" And one of the options was, it's a known company like Facebook or Google or whatever, Amazon. The other option was, "It was my dream job. And one of the options was, it was the only offer I had. And guess what? 80% of the respondents... Some something like 80%, don't quote me on it, you're going to have some fact checkers come after me, but most people accepted their first job out of the military, because it was the only offer on the table. And so I think it goes back to that idea that we're all kind of robots, computers program to execute a decision in front of us. And so with that, you get to that juncture you have you know, when you start your transition, it's a funnel, you have the world of options out there. You go back to school, you could start a new career, you could be entrepreneur. And as the days and months go by, there's less and less and less and less and less options, and you know, you're whittling away as you should, but then at the end of the day, when the rubber meets the road, you're like, Alright, I need to have... How many times you guys heard this, I need to have an offer on the table by the first of this month, because I need to start working the first of the following month. Right? And then they have one offer on the table. And, hey, I'll take it. And guess what, a lot of times people don't end up very happy that way. I know, my first job out of the military. I had one offer basically and I took it, it didn't work out. 

Say something, Michele.

Michele Olive  49:37

It was a very muted for jet noise, but I think that you bring up a good point. A lot of transition is making or taking the best next step. And whatever your options if they're limited or whatever, like what is the best next step, and for as long as they have the realization like it doesn't... this isn't another 20 years’ commitment.

Host   50:00

Right. Or, you know, that is an interesting thing though Michelle is most... Not most, but a lot of the people who are leaving the military, especially career people, they made a 20-year decision. So, you know, it's like the old generations where I got out of the military, I got after 20 years, and I went to work for GE for 20 years. And a lot of us kind of have in our mind, right.

Host   50:30

And you said, we take the next step, based on the options we have, and sometimes, or at least what we think is the best, but if given the choice between... All right, take the only offer on the table, or start over and have no job. That's why people end up working during terminal leave. It's not because they want to double dip, it's because they're, I need to have an income. And this gives me no downtime without an income. I think, in my opinion.

Michele Olive  51:14

I see less and less of that. 

Host   51:17

That's good. 

Michele Olive  51:19

I mean, if I had to say like some interesting trends I've noticed over the past few years, and maybe that's a pandemic influence thing, who knows. But, you know, I teaching people that... I hear a lot of people ask, when is it okay to leave? And I love[crosstalk] an organization like, if you take a job like yeah, what are you allowed, like this notion of pivoting again, just is mind blowing, when you haven't even maybe taken that first step. But you're going to Jurgen Heitmann [phonetic 51:50] is one of our mentors for us. And I remember hearing him speak one time at a program and he talked about the notion of, if you've done what you came to do, and you left the place better then you found it, then you owe them nothing. And just I think that this idea of like giving people permission to be able to move on, or U.S Olympic Committee is fantastic, like here in the U.S, by the way, design your life in their transition program as well with the athletes. But it's interesting because to an athlete, the notion of failure... Failure is a learning opportunity. Into a military member, you talk about failure, I mean, probably the first thing that comes to mind is somebody died, right? Like I mean, failure just has a completely different connotation. And so, when they go into another career, or they go into civilian sector, this notion of having "failure", is really scary. Whereas just maybe someone who's been an Olympic athlete, they're like, Yeah, well, that didn't work. What did I learn from it?

Host   52:56

Man! that is so insightful, because I've been on training ops, and in real world ops, where maybe things didn't go so well. And at the end of the day, can look at each other and like, damn, babe [phonetic 53:11] die. No, then we're good. Okay. So that is like, drilled into people in the military is exactly what you said, so that we do have a fear of failure. 

Eric Horton  53:28

I was going to say, it's funny that she brought that up, because I think it was about three or four days, five days ago, I did a post, what's going to happen, right, two to three jobs in three to five years. I had like, 7000 people pick it up. And I had over 600 people messaged me over it. And it was all revolved around that. And that's exactly what related to me was when I hit that wall, and I was like, I can't believe, I can't make this work. I remember one instance, where my wife had... I was starting to wake up, and I would just lay there, instead of getting go work out and she could feel... I know, she could feel the tension in the negativity. And she said, "Just quit." And it wasn't that she was being very negative. And you know, with it, she was just like, you know, "We don't need this, you don't need this, we're okay." But it was the fact that she said quit. And I was like, "I have never quit anything in my life." I don't care how hot, how cold, how long the road marches, how much the weight was like, I don't care like I don't quit. And I was like, and that's where I made the... because it happens a lot where do we take the first job that we have? And then we feel like we're beholden to it because we're loyal as a fault in a lot of ways. But for some reason, while we're in the army, and we do something a mission didn't go so good. Well, we do? We do a hot wash and an AR afterwards. Well, where I went wrong, how do we not repeat those mistakes? We don't do that in the civilian sector. And so, we get that first job because it was the only offer and it sucks and we hate it. And we're miserable. But quitting is not an option. Right? And that was where I was like, It's okay. And I started telling people, over the years, I've started saying, "Hey, this is exactly what's going to happen", you're going to accept the first job offer. And the real job that you really wanted is probably come to fruition in about three or four weeks, because it takes time to get that job. Now, what do you do? Now you're faced with. That's the job I want to do, I now quit the company that I just accepted the offer with, right? 

Eric Horton  55:30

It's how we view quitting, when do I leave as such a negative tone? And, and, you know, impact to our, our worth and our value system again. Like what I do. And I was like, it's okay, it's, you're going to change jobs, right? There's nothing wrong with that that's not quitting. That's failure in motion, that's failure in progress. And I see it all the time, where people just, they'll let that job that they really want to pass them by. Now they're sitting in a job that they didn't want. And they now they're even angry, because that job they really might have wanted, is now gone. And now they're angry, not just where they're at. It's what decision that they just let fly by because of loyalty. And they don't know how to deal with that. And that snowballs into a bunch of other things as well.

Michele Olive  56:22

Eric, I love what you said, because the notion of loyalty, I see so much of that value and that you know, attribute and a lot of military. And it's amazing. It's why I think I respect and adore military members the way I do. It's one of my top values. So, like, first of all, just own that piece. But realizing that sometimes our values, finding an organization, finding a job that aligns with them is great. And also realizing when they're getting in our own way. Because I'm loyal. I gave them my word, I accepted that job. And it's not the job I wanted, I really want this other job, but I'm not going to be disloyal. Because I would just go against, I couldn't live with myself, right? Anyway, this [crosstalk 57:05] value systems getting their own way.

Host   57:14

The funny thing about being in the military is you can be fired from a position, but you're still going to get paid. You know, most of the time unless you do something egregious, and they like go home and never come back but you're also in a position where the military can't fire you. There’re ways to do it. But it's a long bureaucratic process. But when you get out, you do have that loyalty for that position, you want to do what you said you were going to do give it your all at least. But you know, I've told people, people come to me and asked me my opinion about, hey, I don't like this job or whatever. And I just tell him, like, if they didn't want you, if for some reason that company you're working for... on Friday said, you know what we could do without Eric, on Friday, so he's been calling the office, they're going to say, Hey, thanks for coming in. Don't come back. Right. So, we live, mostly.... I guess most states live in at-will environment where employment is at will. 

Host   58:39

I mean, we have to give... If you quit a company, it's tradition, or at least, you know, commonplace to give a few weeks’ notice, hey, I'm going to be gone on a couple weeks. But they can tell you just go away, in really, they don't have to give you a severance or anything like that. So, I tell people, if you're really unhappy, you're not going to be giving your best effort, you're not going to be providing the output that you're expected to give. So just rip the Band-Aid off, don't feel that you... Oh, this sounds horrible but don't feel like you really owe corporate America anything. Right? If you're not happy, it's not going to work out for you. It's not going to work out for them. It's not going to work out for your family. And you actually are in a position now to say, all right, I'm going to give you a couple of weeks’ notice. And then I'm going to go away. And I'll be happier for it. And I think that people should [crosstalk]

Eric Horton  59:42

And they have systems in place that they can easily replace you. It's the same as in the army, right? The army's machine does not stop moving because it's not there. That corporate arena, they're going to still keep going. They just going to... Somebody's going to get overburdened with your extra work until they can get a replacement. That’s just normal, right? Not saying, be a serial Job Hopper? You definitely need to value your... And I say a lot of times this is really even more important, the way I look at it is you have to be the best ambassador for what it means to be a veteran. Because if you do it wrong, and you go in and on Monday and say, that’s it, I don't want to be here and quit, right? But no notice or anything else. They're not just blaming you; they're going to label all of us veterans, that the last veteran we hired did this to us. 

So just at least have a common respect to give them the notice. But don't be loyal to a fault, right? And don't try to keep dealing with it either. Because sometimes you're not going to even be able to deal with it on your own in these without getting help. And I would even try to rationalize, when I think I would say the same thing. I would say, Jesus Christ, I don't see how these people are getting so worked up. It's boxes, not bodies but it was just mind blown to me how...

Host   1:01:04

[crosstalk]

Eric Horton  1:01:06

I remember saying that more than what [phonetic 01:01:08 we would do. So, any company is a publicly traded company belongs to what they call Sarbanes Oxley Act, which is, you're projecting quarterly earnings report for your actual corporate, and so, man, I mean, I would see these people, it would be an all nighter the night before the end of the queue. And I'm like, Man, these people really get worked up over, you know, these boxes, and I'm like, how can I not deal with this? Because it's boxes, not bodies. Like, what's wrong with me?

Host   1:01:34

What is wrong with you, man?

Eric Horton  1:01:37

Yeah, absolutely. I couldn't figure it out.

Host   1:01:40

I think this is a good chance to segue [phonetic 01:01:44] to. So, we talked a lot about who you are, finding out who you are. Different ways to do that even experience... Was that word I'm looking for? Experientially, that's another word. 

Anyways, Eric, you are somewhat of an expert, I think, at least on telling your story. So, tell us a little bit how you discovered LinkedIn, and what it's done for you and how other people can use that to tell their own story and to get their brand, their image, their personality out there.

Eric Horton  1:02:27

Well, the best thing that I learned... So immediately, when I left the position that I was in, I immediately looked at the value that LinkedIn could provide, which was.... I had to tell our story, I had to go back, and I had to say, hey, look, this is what I did wrong. These are... I know, I can't be the only guy out here, right. And the more that I started being transparent, and started leveraging telling this story, I started seeing a big movement take place, which is how do we talk more about our experiences? So that leveraging that is.... This is now my brand, right? This is who I am, what I'm passionate about doing? 

Well, I started looking at that, like, you could do the same thing. What if you're an IT Project Manager, and you say, "I like this", and I've dealt with a... You know, another good colleague, that was a former infantry, 11 Zulu, first sergeant infantry, but he really loved it, and had no college had no project management piece, no certifications. But he ended up becoming the project manager in an IT division for a very, very large company. And it became like what you need to tell your story, because there's a lot of veterans that I knew that had hobbies, that they can now do that in the civilian sector that might transcend their lapses and be able to share it. 

So that's your brand. What do you like to do? Tell your story? How do you how do you sell your capabilities, and the more often that you got into LinkedIn and started talking about that, well, guess what, that's not your elevator pitch, right? It's a genuine conversation with not just you, but other peers and other colleagues that are in companies that you may want to work for, or they might find value in what you're giving. And so, leveraging LinkedIn was just a really a way for me as a coping mechanism, honestly, was because I still wanted a service. I wanted to tell my battle buddies, the experience that I just experienced. But I kind of recognized that, Hey, I can't be the only guy here who went through this. And it just grew and grew. And I'm not the only anomaly with this, like everybody else can do the exact same thing. It's going to help you ease the conversations when you say... When I say tell me about yourself, it's just I give me your elevator pitch. It's just going to help you build who you are as a brand. I hate to use that term all the time. But really, it's what are you and who are you and what do you want to do? Right and tell everybody that and that start having conversations about it. Don't put just your best foot [phonetic 01:04:59] Instagram filter forward, let's talk about bought the nail the dirt as well write and share. Because that also shows that you're a human being. I would much rather buy from a human being that I can relate to, than just somebody that just throws up this fictitious image of perfection, because I know what the other day you're going to get tried eventually, you're going to be tested against that. And I want to see how well you perform underneath that. And if I don't have anything to go off on, then using LinkedIn as a way to be transparent and honest and genuine with it, that's just going to be a way great way for you to unpack your brand. And it's worked very well for me.

Host   1:05:36

How does Joe Schmo who's getting out in 18 months? How does he get started with this journey online? I know, like when I was getting out, I was a little bit reluctant. I didn't want to put myself out there. Slowly but surely, I've posted a few things that have had pretty good response. But I was pretty reluctant at first at least to show myself to say, "Hey, look at me." And without the Instagram lens that you had mentioned but how does one get started to tell their story and engage on LinkedIn?

Eric Horton  1:06:17

So, what was the number one thing that you did? Well, the way I looked at it for me from this perspective was as a logistician, the first thing that I ever did before I deployed was, I started making conversations with the person that I was going to rip out with, right, or the person I was going to do a handoff from, right. So, they're getting ready to leave, but I need to know what I'm getting into. So, what do I do I network with the individual on the other end, and I say, Hey, man, we're getting ready to rip out, I'll be there, you know, we'll do a PDSS [phonetic] or pre-deployment site survey, I want to know as much about that Battlefield, as you know, right? LinkedIn is a battlefield just in a different geographical location, right? I start having conversations with those individuals now that have already gone through it, or already there have already, you know, you are getting ready to deploy essentially, when you retire. It's a different Battlefield, it's a different area of operation, different area of support, different air, everything is different, right? Treat it like that. So, building your brand, before you start talking about your brand is build it, how do I build it by building awareness by reaching out to people that have done it already there? Right. 

So don't just immediately jump into LinkedIn and say, I'm just going to start posting something that has nothing to do with who you are. Right? So, reach out to the individuals, right? Go deploy to LinkedIn, and start having conversations with those people that you're getting ready to rip out with and say, Hey, what could I do differently? What am I walking into? You know, and then the more that you start having those conversations, the commonality of somebody saying, who are you is, is broad, right, but somebody is going to ask you that somebody's going to share your tribe, right? Someone's going to share because your parachute, design your life. So, I'm just going to share these tools. And if you're halfway worth the leader that you say you are in the military, you would be leaning out and trying to, you know, to gain as much battlefield intelligence or find the node as possible, right? And do that. And then eventually, you're going to start working around. 

Okay, so now you know you are, now you've been armed with a lot of great battlefield intelligence, right? Now you can start talking about and broadcasting who you are, what your capabilities are, and then start going into a different phase of that operation, which is, I need to find my way into a company, because now I know who I am. I know that's who I want to work for. So now I need to start leveraging LinkedIn by being marketable to everybody that's out there. And then sharing what I can do differently right then, then just posting a job online. So those are kind of the way that I look at LinkedIn in a nutshell, and it works.

Host   1:08:49

Yeah. And if you want to touch on, please touch on a little bit about what the state of Tennessee is doing for veterans. Now, I know we're running low on time. So, no pressure, but be concise. Eric, for God's sakes, now tell us a little bit about what Tennessee's got going on and who you're working for. And what we can look forward to.

Eric Horton  1:09:16

Yeah, so Tennessee has recognized immensely the value that veterans have and bring to the workforce. Tennessee is not an anomaly, every state is going through a workforce labor shortage, right? The difference is not a lot of people have leveraged the military's capabilities by doing direct link outreach. And that's what Tennessee is doing different is we're trying to leverage the fact that we are geographically blessed, and that we can reach the state of Tennessee can reach 70% of the US population within one day. So, every industry is here, but we're surrounded by 8 states that have massive veteran populations. We have a huge workforce need and so my charge has been to grow the veteran awareness of what benefits the Tennessee offers, you know, like No property tax. There are tons of benefits that Tennessee offers, as well as tax free. You know, all these different living expenses are, which I wasn't dipping, you know, dissing on Virginia. But Virginia is terrible for veterans when they retire. Just the sheer volume of money that they take back from you is just amazing. 

Anyway, so Tennessee is trying to spotlight everything that makes us unique. The job opportunities with Oracle and Ford, Ford recently did a big announcement a $5.6 billion investment to build a new vehicle. And all the governor looks at now is he really wants to take care of veterans, he recognizes the value, and he wants to everything he can to promote the workforce for veterans, to come from the different surrounding states because we have a huge need. And we recognize, I mean, from the veterans that even he has been surrounded with, he understands Holy crap, why haven't we done this before, like, let’s go after these guys, they really can, can solve a lot of problems that we have. And so now it's just trying to bring, bring a greater awareness of the benefits that you have here, the greater opportunity that you have here, and then the quality of life that you'll have here. And so that's what we're working on right now, and one of those big things is the bike ride that we're going to be doing this spring, right, so I'm going to ride a bike from Memphis to East 10th, from West Tennessee, Memphis, to Kingston in Kingsport and East Tennessee, over about a 20 to 23-day period to stop at each different American Job Center and spotlight those companies in that area. And then to try to bring awareness to what Tennessee has across the state to both employers’ side on veterans that are in their area, as well as veterans are outside the area like Hey, I didn't know that that was available in Kingsport. So that's what we're trying to do, too is do that big movement just to bring more awareness to veterans in Tennessee and corporations to veterans in Tennessee.

Host   1:11:51

Awesome. And Michele, what does the Commit Foundation have going on? And what can we look forward to in the future from the organization

Michele Olive  1:12:02

We're going to just continue to think quality and scale because what I'll call it because we certainly are growing for the folks who are coming through and want to figure out who they are and where they want to go. 

Michele Olive  1:12:17

For a workshop standpoint, we're going to be in Tennessee, right in Nashville, and February, I think 24th or 25th. There’re workshop events are more of a capstone, but we plan to have, I believe, 10 of those next year. But it's a journey. So, I'd say without given to [phonetic 1:12:34] large of promises, I think people should go to our website, they should check it out, if it really resonates with them, they should apply and let us be part of that journey. And the good news is, you know, we're pretty flexible. So, if they want to use any of the other 44,000 innovations out there, they can do those in tandem, because we try to make sure we what we're doing it complements what they're already working on, and that flexibility just makes it easy.

Host   1:13:10

What's the website?

Michele Olive  1:13:12

www.commitfoundation.org C-O-M-M-I-T

Host   1:13:19

And we'll have that in the show notes, of course, along with Michele and Eric's LinkedIn profiles and any other socials that are associated with Commit Foundation and to save Tennessee Veterans Outreach. Which by the way, I don't know if there is an Instagram page for better outreach in Tennessee?

Eric Horton  1:13:41

There's not. The only thing we're actually working on right now [crosstalk] to be Yeah, LinkedIn Music City was trying to close a lot of those gaps. So, we're working.

Host   1:13:51

Great. Well, I appreciate both of you guys being on the podcast with me. And we covered a lot of ground and not enough time, as always, but I think that the state of the veteran engagement or the veteran market for... I say this. I think that the state where veterans are right now being great, but it's only getting better, because there's organizations like the Commit Foundation, and you know, 44,000 others of which probably... I don't know, 38,000 of them are pretty good. I don't know all of them but that might be a high number. I appreciate you guys being on with us and hope to hear from you guys again, you know, obviously keep in touch and I'm happy to make this connection between you two and if any of our listeners out there want to connect, their information will be in the show notes. And again, really appreciate it. Thanks guys.

Eric Horton  1:15:03

Thank you very much.